Here is a conversation I had with an Ethiopian anthropologist about the conflicts in Ethiopia. Regular people have faced multiple forms of physical violence, ethnic and religious strife, environmental degradations, and other difficulties. The current political system in Ethiopia seems to incentivize violence and destruction, but he gives a better vision for humanity than the type of sectarian focus on “helping my own group” that seems to have currently taken hold of both Ethiopia and many other places around the world. What would it look like for Ethiopians to move beyond a colonial mentality and sectarian thinking to embrace the humanity of everyone, and what can others in other parts of the world learn from this process? These are the kinds of questions we talk through in our conversation.
Because he criticizes current elites, I am not using his real name. Usually, I post these conversations as a video on my YouTube channel, but to ensure his confidentiality, we decided to post a textual transcript here instead. I know this is a little different from my normalhttps://www.youtube.com/@DemocracyDemythologized type of content on this blog, but I still hope you find the conversation insightful. I certainly did.
[Me]
Hello everyone, I’m here with Aaron. Aaron, how are you doing today?
[Aaron]
Yeah, I’m doing well. Thank you for inviting me to discuss some issues with you.
[Me]
Yes, we’re here to talk about Ethiopia, both your work in this context, but then also what’s been happening in general. Would you like to get started talking at a high level about what you do and what made you interested in studying some of the societal dynamics in Ethiopia?
[Aaron]
Yeah, okay, thank you, Me. Yeah, by profession, I am a social anthropologist, born and studied here in Ethiopia. So, as a social anthropologist, I am very much interested in studying social ecological systems, the lenient transformation of socio-ecological systems over time and how they affect the lives and livelihoods of peoples in Ethiopia.
In particular, I am also interested in conflict studies, migration, livelihood changes, and social protection. Recently, I was engaging with my colleagues from the UK in conducting a project on social protection in the climate change and conflict-affected areas or in the settings where society is affected by climate change and conflict.
[Me]
You said this project is about how the environmental information in certain conflict areas in Ethiopia. Could you walk us through what those conflict areas are and what the conflicts have been going on?
[Aaron]
Yeah, just from the general point of view, conflict is a common experience that can be experienced by any society. It is everywhere, though its magnitude or its effects and the extent it covers might differ. So, Ethiopia is no different from other nations, and the society is not also different from other societies all over the world.
However, in Ethiopia, this conflict is often experienced by the peoples who have shortages of resources. Resources and resource shortage and climate change were the main cause of the conflict. However, since recent times the dynamics of this conflict have changed from these already known causes to that of the recently evolving reasons of conflict.
Like, the interest of the elite groups for power has particularly started initiating conflict at different places in Ethiopia, particularly among the pastoral societies and even recently among different ethnic groups with the intention of just expanding their territories from one region to the others. You can take as an example the recent conflict in Ethiopia that began in 2020 along the border between Tigray and Amhara regional states, along the border between Somalia and Oromo regional states, among different ethnic groups, particularly in the southern parts of Ethiopia and in the western parts of Ethiopia as well.
[Me]
When do you think this transition happened between, we’ll say, more of like a regular resource-based conflict to this kind of thing that’s been stoked by elites? How did that evolve? Or how did the conflicts start to become stoked by elites?
[Aaron]
Yeah. Just to make clear that, in particular, since this, the federal administrative system is not very well implemented to the right way, or people may understood or conceived this federalism in different ways or in a wrong way, so that during its implementation, many some elite groups of a given ethnic groups who might administer a given district or region may assume that this territory should belong to us, so that we need to control. At that moment, just for the sake of just collecting taxes or and other benefits or resources, particularly along the border areas, they instigate those neighboring ethnic groups or motivate the neighboring groups to engage in conflicts. These are the main issues.
Besides this, elite groups most of the time want to stay in power. They do not want to just leave the administrative power.
So at the time when they were when the federal government or regional governments wanted us to just depose them from their power, they instigate conflicts, so that it is only them who can manage this conflict, so that they try to divert the attention of the federal government or the higher authorities. And the next point is that particularly the serious conflict. Even those who are at the highest positions at the federal level, at the regional level, when their position, when they assume that their position is going to be threatened by the ethnic groups or the district administrators or regional administrators against the federal government, they also instigate conflicts to divert, to put pressure. Pressure on who? On the districts, on the regions, and on the peoples, not to just revolt against the government. This was what we were experiencing before the deposition of the EPDRF regime.
The people were experiencing such things. And then during the time when the EPDRF was deposed or overthrown, just on the eve, at the time when they are going to leave their position at the federal level the TPLF, Tigray People’s Liberation Front leader instigated conflicts, serious conflicts between Oromia and Somali regional states. And between even other ethnic groups, because they feared that they are going to leave their position that they controlled for more than 27 years.
This was the main reason for the recent conflict in 2018 and then after. Even currently, the incumbent government, when they are just assuming that we are going to be threatened by the opposition groups or other elite groups, they instigate conflict between ethnic groups, even though they belong to those ethnic groups. So such conflicts are still existing in Ethiopia because of this elite group’s interest to stay in power or in their positions.
We can also understand what’s going on currently in Ethiopia. There are so many insurgent groups in the country and they are harassing peoples, harassing the peasants or the farmers who do not have any political intentions. But they do not want to just leave the people to become stable and to think or to ask for some services from the government.
I don’t want to just reach the final judgment that this is done by the government or the opposition groups. But everybody has a hand in such instabilities in the country.
[Me]
It’s sad to see how elites seem to be using conflicts to maintain their power, no matter what side the elites are on. It’s really sad to see people take advantage of things like violence in order to maintain their control. What impact does this have in your experience on regular people, such as in the communities that you work with?
[Aaron]
Oh, it has a serious impact or negative impact on the people. Currently, for instance, peoples aren’t, even within the same ethnic group, able to even farm and feed themselves. They have been forced to leave their farmland and stay in the city, in the small cities.
They have been uprooted from their land, from their ancestral land. So they are going to become beggars. And this is a serious problem, not only for the people, but for the government.
If they do not have anything to eat, they may just, they may just turn against the government. It would result in havoc and further serious instabilities in the country. Because of such conflicts, the youths are particularly forced to migrate to the overseas countries.
They are going to the overseas countries on foot through Sudan, Libya, and they are losing their lives in the desert and in the oceans. They are drowning while they are in the oceans. They have been killed.
And their organs have been stolen. This is the result of the conflicts. Since there is no stability, there is no development.
People couldn’t make their food so that they are forced to leave their state, their country. Even the groups are at risk of hunger because they have no children beside them. They have already migrated to the major cities and to overseas countries. So there is a serious problem that the people in the country face. That is hunger. This is the problem.
The other issue is that even if you are staying in the countryside you are forced or farmers are forced to feed those insurgents and bandits who have been deployed by, we don’t know, either the government or the opposition groups. They have been deployed by this and that. So they are forced to feed them while their children are passing the night without food.
At some places, this conflict has some sort of religious dimension. In some places the Christians have been killed and uprooted from their territories. And at another place, the Muslims, at the same time, killed and uprooted from their farmland or from their residences.
And in addition to this, their children are killed, slaughtered for nothing. You are siding this group, you are siding the government or you are siding the insurgents. You don’t know who is going to kill you.
People are losing their lives in large numbers. Asking for ransom is a common experience. Even I, myself, just supported family members three times for my salary. Three times.
These are the results. It’s not only affecting the farmers or those who are living in the countryside. It’s also affecting those who are living also in the urban centers. Because there is high inflation and no production in the country. The farmers are not producing because they are forced to leave their farm.
Even if they stay in their farmland, they are expected to just feed the insurgents. You see? So there is inflation, there is shortage of resources in the urban centers.
In particular, the government workers are highly affected because of such instabilities in the country, not only the farmers. Yeah, these are some of the issues. Yeah.
[Me]
This sounds awful. It would make sense that a lot of people are fleeing, whether they’re fleeing to the cities or other countries. This sounds like a societal breakdown. I mean, if the rural areas are not being productive and many people are flocking to the cities, what impact is that having on the society overall?
[Aaron]
Oh, yeah. The culture of helping each other has already just diminished because they moved to the city. And there is mental stress at this time. So many people are dying from this stress. What would I do? What I’m going to feed my children while I’m in the cities?
There are so many people in the cities, even in the small urban centers, in the small urban centers. So even the movement of peoples to the urban centers, as I already mentioned, if they have nothing to eat, they may engage in banditry activities, in thefts. So the instabilities in the countryside would also follow them in the urban centers.
So currently the urban dwellers are also feeling such consequences. So because they have nothing to eat, they may just engage in such theft activities. This is against the culture of these people.
As I already mentioned, those who moved to the urban centers, to the small urban centers, at the time when they have nothing to eat, they may move again to the big or large cities. Again, in those urban centers, there is no job. You see?
There is no job. Because so many users have already just migrated even to Addis Ababa currently. There are so many. There is a shortage of housing. They are just staying under the bridge. They are living in one house. You may get five or six individuals renting a single house, a single condominium house. They are forced to just inhabit a small house. What would happen since these individuals have no job?
They are seen as a threat not only for the society, even for the government. And subsequently, when they have been just, they still might be thrown into jail, or when they face so many challenges, they decide to migrate again from these big cities to overseas countries. They are dying in their masses.
For instance, recently so many individuals died in the Afar region while they were traveling to Yemen or passing through Djibouti. So many users. What is the reason behind this? Because of the instability.
And some others joined the insurgents. They joined the insurgents in their large number.s In their large numbers. They are engaging in abducting and asking for ransom.
Even if you are going to just create stability in the country. These users have already just learned that they are getting money without working. Without making any efforts. Just by abducting. So how this instability will continue, even though the government will take measures. These are the main problems.
[Me]
Yeah, it makes total sense. A lot of people who are fleeing these conflicts in other countries. They can be in very dangerous situations. I’ve talked to refugees, not just from Ethiopia, but from Eritrea, who traveled up Egypt from Mount Sinai and into the Middle East from there. And they would talk about the perils of that route. But Djibouti, Yemen, these routes also have their perils as well. All of them can be very dangerous.
This is something you kind of hinted at at the beginning, but what have the implications of all this been on the environment too? You mentioned your project with the British anthropologist talking about some of the ways that this has been impacting the environment. What have you found?
[Aaron]
Yeah. The conflict has also impacted the environment as far as there is competition between different groups to control resources, particularly along the border between ethnic groups.
They are competing to control such border areas. They are exploiting such resources without any responsibility. You see? I may not use this area tomorrow, so that they cut trees and make charcoal, they cut and they overgraze a given area, other resources and cut different things, engage in different stations. This is the main impact on the environment.
Even within a given ethnic group, since there is scarcity of resources because of the high population pressure, they are intruding into where? The protected areas. They use this just to farm or to cut trees and to graze their animals.
This is also affecting the environment. Since the productivity is low and currently, particularly, the agricultural inputs are very rare and scarce, the government couldn’t provide the society with agricultural inputs so that there is poor agricultural productivity. In this case farmers or the community engage in exploiting the resources of the protected area resources near their villages or to their territories.
Particularly, for instance, women engage in charcoal production. They do this because they are expected to feed their families and their men migrate to other areas, their husbands, just to work and send back money to their families. The environment is affected in such a way.
[Me]
I could see moving short-term into an area could lead to military groups syphoning as many resources from the area they are in as possible. Many countries in East Africa seem to have issues with deforestation. For example, I used to live in Uganda, and deforestation for charcoal cooking was a big problem in the rural area where I lived. When women move to different areas for work, what impact does that have on the family? Does it cause the family to split up?
[Aaron]
Okay. Most of the time, those unmarried women are migrating to the urban centers, but those who married are usually staying with their family, with their children. So, when their girls are migrating even to the overseas countries, to the Arab or to Europe, through Libya and Egypt, there is disconnection and stress among those girls.
Even family members are just entering into stress or experiencing stress. These are the main problems. Most of the time the unmarried girls are migrating, but those who are suffering and become more vulnerable to these instabilities and environmental challenges are those married women.
They’re expected to stay in their village or in their society, yeah. And for instance most girls who graduated or who completed their grade 10 or grade 12 education, they’re migrating to the major urban centers to work in the factories. Actually, those factories are now weak at this time, so they can’t absorb so much labor power in the major cities.
However, five or six years ago, so many girls were migrating to the major urban centers, particularly where big factories were established. But recently, they have no option in the major urban centers. Rather, they move to or they migrate to overseas countries. And in the process, they are getting abducted or they are getting face sexual harassment and they may be exposed to unwanted pregnancy and the likes, so that girls are still suffering. Yeah. What’s happening with that?
[Me]
This is sad. You said that in the last five or six years, many of these factories have been shutting down. And why has that been the case?
[Aaron]
Yeah, it’s clear. As I already mentioned, investors are feeling the instability in the country. Investors are even officials and the main reasons for the weakening of such big factory centers, because they are asking for money from the investors.They are asking for unwanted money. They are engaging in corruption.
So then why would they come? Anybody may come to office and may ask you for some amount of money. If you do not do this, if he has power, I will shut down your factory. I will not allow your workers to come to work at your factory. See, they are engaging in such activities, which go against development.
[Me]
Yeah, many of these problems seem cyclical, like they reinforce each other. For example, the more this breakdown is happening, the more investments withdraw, and then that fuels more corruption, because leaders get less desperate, so they demand more to get what they perceive as the amount that they deserve, and it just kind of breaks down. A cyclical downtown.
[Aaron]
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, there are so many challenges or problems in the country. So I don’t know.
Actually, as I already mentioned, just this is established all over the world. Yeah, all over the world. We are just following up some media, even in America. You have no guarantee to live. ICE or something like that may kill you somewhere, and you may just get abducted. Even in Latin America, such individuals may just get killed because of these drugs and the like. Wherever you go, there are instabilities, and these instabilities are seriously affecting poor countries, like Africa, because their livelihood is largely dependent on farming. So their livelihood is hand to mouth. As far as they are not allowed to farm, their fate will become just to leave their country or to die.
[Me]
Yeah, this makes sense. The U.S. is definitely doing its own spiraling right now, which is sad to see. I agree with you. Looking at how this impacts more marginalized parts of the world, including many African countries, it’s very sad.
You have that saying – I’m just going to say it’s an African proverb, because I’ve heard it attributed to different parts of Africa, and I don’t know where it came from: “When the elephants fight, it’s the grass that gets trampled.” When the big powers fight, it’s often those who are in the more marginalized positions that actually get hurt the worst.
This relates to the other question I was going to ask you, which is what roles have other countries played in the issues going on in Ethiopia? What roles have other nearby countries like Eritrea played, but then also what roles have some of the bigger powers, like in the West, in the Middle East played in what is happening in Ethiopia?
[Aaron]
Yeah, just to start from the specific point is, if the people or society are stable, and if they are working in a safe, peaceful environment, they wouldn’t suffer. As you already said, when the elephants fight against each other, it is grass that is seriously damaged. Yeah, as I already mentioned, just a little bit from the society to the regional level in Ethiopia.
The needy groups have their own interests. For instance, at the time when EPRDF or the TPLF dominated regime deposed, just to secure their power, they initiated conflicts between the three groups. Again, here, it is a society that is seriously vulnerable to that conflict.
Similarly, when you have no guarantee of your position at a country level, you are starting to blame others, you are starting to create another foreign enemy. In every country in the whole of Africa, everybody is now pointing against its neighbor. This, our government is pointing against the Eritrean government.
The Eritrean government is pointing against the Ethiopia or the Somali government, because they have no guarantee of their position, because they are not doing a good job at making peace in their society. They are creating issues to fight against each other. At the moment, they stay on power.
You see? Now, you can take Isaias. Now, he is just exporting munitions and military weapons to Ethiopia to create instability here in this country. The same shit is done by our government. We are hearing from the media that this government is exporting military materials to Sudan and also organizing opposition groups in Eritrea. This is the case.
So that it is to just ease their own problems that they create enemies outside their country and divert the attention of the society who are suffering from this inflation or economic problems. This is the main problem.
Of course, international powers have also interest in the whole of Africa. They don’t want the Red Sea Line to get disturbed because of the conflict in the whole of Africa. At the same time, they might have interests in the resources of the whole of Africa, over the oil of Sudan over the ports, along the Red Sea and in the ocean.
They have interest so that they may intervene to create instability in the whole of Africa. If not, they wouldn’t get such resources. So that there is also the hand of the major powers over the instability of the whole of Africa.
[Me]
It’s sad to see both nearby countries kind of taking advantage, leaders of those countries taking advantage and saying, “We’re going to blame this other country for the sake of their own power.”
[Aaron]
Yeah.
[Me]
One question I have for you is, we spent a while talking about some of the problems. In your experience as an anthropologist, what do you think would help? Like, what are there, are there things that have worked in the past to establish peace in Ethiopia? Or are there things now that you think could help kind of dismantle this cycle?
[Aaron]
In this evolving world, governments should adjust themselves, should listen to the interests of the masses. I think you know how much the Ethiopian peoples very much loved and supported the government at the beginning. I don’t know why the governments are messing around or creating problems against the people.
So the main point is listening to the interest of the mass. The people do not want too much. If you create peace, they can work and make their own livelihood. That is the point. People love you if you create, or if you create a peaceful environment for them.
And Africa has enough on its own, enough resources to feed its people. It only needs a little effort to exploit the resource and make society beneficial.
[Me]
Ethiopia in particular. Ethiopia is a very resource-rich country with a lot of opportunities.
[Aaron]
Yeah. So that if you create jobs for the users, they wouldn’t go to just overseas countries. They wouldn’t sacrifice their life. You need to create jobs for the users. That is so simple. People only need motivation and a little bit of support. If there is such motivation and a peaceful environment, they can just prosper by making their livelihood. This is the point I have.
And regarding such tensions between states or countries, we Ethiopians particularly have a democratic system, an indigenous democratic system. For instance, the GADAA system. In that indigenous institution, a leader would only stay in power for only eight years. And then democratically, he would pass his power to the next person. Why don’t we use such indigenous system?
Why don’t we just cling to power? Look at the Eritrean government, these ideas. What a man. He was staying for this long period of time and killing users and forcing them to leave their country. So we need to exploit our indigenous system.
If so, we can’t prosper. Countries would prosper. Even the Somali have their own indigenous system. They do not exploit. They have been currently exploited by the external powers who are competing over their resources. So if they use their own indigenous system, indigenous way of life, they can prosper.
The technology is already there. You can get the technologies. You can adopt those technologies. I don’t know why they wanted to, why they are thirsty for just staying in power. This is the main problem.
The other issue is that we Ethiopians need to just practice the genuine federal administrative system. The genuine. Not the exploiter and the exploited.
Every nation and nationality need to get representation in their government. Through cycle, you see. They need to get their positions at different times. They need to just work on their own culture, on their own way of life. So that if you respect their culture, their own way of life, no one would just stand up and want to fight against you. So that real federalism should be practiced.
As you said, we have ample resources. We need to use those resources wisely. We have rivers. Of course, even the government is trying to just practice such things. Currently, during the dry season, farmers are motivated to engage in irrigation activities.
This is good practice. This is a good experience. Why don’t we promote such activities or such good practices rather than promoting insurgencies, than supporting bandits against the people, against society? Why don’t we just kill the life of these poor farmers who do not know about politics? They are dying without knowing anything about politics. They are just like a football. Anybody can hit them. Why? Why would this happen?
Yeah, we need to just think, these elite groups particularly, should think again and again to make the livelihood of these poor people better. And the elite groups shouldn’t think only about their power. He will die after 60 or 70 years.
I don’t know why they are thinking as if they are living 4,000 years. What type of mentality do they have? As if they do not die. They assume that as if they do. These elite groups need to think again and again. So, we need to develop local economies. We need to protect our environment. We need to create peaceful relationships with other countries. Yeah. We, particularly the Africans, should have to just know that. They shouldn’t side with these and other powers.
They should have to exploit the technologies in the developed countries rather than just airing these polities and this and that, engaging in pirate activities. Piracy is the main problem. They should avoid that one and focus on their own resources and work on just making better the livelihood of their people.
I believe that human beings are the same. Africa is the cradle of mankind. Everybody is migrating from Africa, particularly from Ethiopia, to different parts of the world. Because of adaptation, we are different, but we are still the same.
Even the developed countries need to think in such a way. Human beings are the same. Why do they consider other nations or other continents as different and work against them? They are human beings. We are the same. You are my brother. Even the external powers need to think like this. They are considering other nations or other peoples as if they are not their brothers or their sisters. As if they are aliens. I don’t know why they think like that.
The major powers need to think also as other continents or other nations are also human beings. If and only if we, these Africans, develop in a better way, that’s the only way to become stable. As I already discussed before.
If people are getting poor, they will migrate. They are forced to migrate in one way or another way. However, if they developed where they are, why would they migrate? Why would they become a threat to other countries or other continents? So that major nations or powerful countries need to help or support these Africans or Asians or Latin Americans. They wouldn’t become a threat for instance.
Currently Trump is saying that you are a threat for our nation. No. If they have a good environment, good political system, good economic system where they have been, they wouldn’t migrate. They wouldn’t go, to just share the resources of the major powers.
We need to think at the world level as a human being. Your ancestors migrated from here, from Africa. A man in Peru is my brother. A man in Japan is my brother. A man in America is my brother. We need to think like that. Yeah, over to you. Thank you.
[Me]
I think that’s a much better model for humanity. I guess I had a couple of thoughts. Something you said at the beginning made me think about how, in some countries, the approach to elections is “to the victor goes the spoils.” They think,” They say, “I’ve won, therefore I’m going to take all the resources and distribute it among my people, my followers,” that could be their ethnic group or tribe, those in their political party, their donors, however they conceived of “their people.”
This is something we’re seeing with Donald Trump. I agree with you. A lot of these problems, for migration in particular, a lot of these problems are very global. If you look at it, the migration patterns built by the current global system. Of course, a lot of people are trying to move. When your world is so unequal, of course, people are going to try to move to a better place.
And then many lands around the world are made to be in perpetual conflict. As an example, I recently talked to a scholar from the Democratic Republic of the Congo. The DRC is a really good example of this, where it’s basically just kept in like a conflict area, and that helps be able to extract cheap resources. And it’s very sad.
And you’re right it’s about how we treat others. This is how we treat our brothers and sisters. There’s just a lot of people who will say, it’s about protecting us and our people, this, this, this. That’s what’s going on in the US right now. But it’s just really sad because what happens is you’re making the world worse for everybody when you do that. I absolutely agree. There could be some forms of hope.
I’m reminded of when I lived in Uganda, when I taught high school math in Uganda, and I remember that the other Ugandan teachers had a big conference in Addis Ababa. I couldn’t go, and I can’t remember why, but they came back gleaming about how amazing Ethiopia was. Ugandans often looked to Ethiopia as a kind of model for pan-Africanism, as what could happen when Africans get along and build something together.
And there’s a lot of reasons for that. Some of it has to do with AU headquarters being there, some of it has to do with the fact that Ethiopia was not colonized, or at least has a very different relationship with colonialism. And some Africans do look to Ethiopia specifically, in my experience, for a type of promise, or kind of coming together in building a better world. Whether Ethiopia always lives that, it doesn’t seem like it, but there’s at least some promise of that.
Or what do you think? And what are practical things you think people can do to help build this type of world that you’re talking about?
[Aaron]
Great. Yeah. First, we need to work on our mindset. We need to work on our psychology. We need to work on awareness of individuals or elite groups.
For instance, I have been to Switzerland, Germany, France, and the UK for some time. I have had the chance to stay there. I have had the chance to migrate to America, or somewhere else. I have had the chance to migrate to Sweden or Norway.
But why? Those who have no awareness, only those who have no awareness migrated, they do not know. They are migrating as if they are migrating to heaven. They are eating just without working. No, wherever you go, you need to work. In America, we know the life of Ethiopians.
Migrants are expected to work hard. Seriously. Why do they fail to work in their country? Even those who are doctors and degree graduates are migrating. They are migrating because they have no awareness. They have the mentality that there is a better life there.
No, there is no life without working. If they work with this plentiful, enormous resources in Africa, they can prosper and even change themselves and their country as well. So that’s why we need to work on psychology and mentality.
Mental awareness of people. I have so many chances to just stay outside my country. Why do I come back? These poor people help me to become an educated person. Paying taxes.
I can’t just contribute a little bit even while I am in Ethiopia. No, I can’t contribute for this country and people while I am outside the country. Even there are so many challenges and problems at this time in the country.
I am working, contributing by creating awareness among peoples. My friends, I am a lecturer at the university so that I can teach my students and create awareness. I am telling them my experience of the outside world, so then why do they migrate?
That is the main problem among educated elites not just in Africa in particular but all over the world. They can make a better life in their country if there is instability. We can also make stability by working while we are in our country. Those Ugandans, those Democratic Republic Kongos, those Somalis, they can make thei country peaceful and live together.
Why do they migrate, sending back dollars to initiate conflicts in their country? What stupidity is this? This is the main problem. Some individuals, even opposition groups are currently just living in the UK or America or somewhere in Europe and they are instigating conflicts in the country while they are there. Why don’t you die in this country?
There is a space, some space, even it is narrow to work even in politics, to work on environment, to work on the culture so that we Africans and the poor people need to just be aware of such things. We can’t change our country, our continent if we continue to migrate. We can’t.
Also, as you mentioned that of course our African brothers may just appreciate us. Ethiopia was an independent nation and blah blah like this. And Ethiopia was working for Pan-Africanism, of course. Our rulers, emperors, even dictators were working to unify Africa.
But I don’t accept that Ethiopia was not colonized. We have been both colonized mentally and physically. What does it mean, the concept of colonialism? We were colonizing each other. One ethnic group was colonizing the other. Even currently, some others are expected to be submissive, while some others are using ruling and exploiting the resources.
Colonialism is everywhere in the world. Let alone in Africa. Even in America. In Europe. In Asia. Currently, in a different form, in a different shape, there is colonialism.
So that’s the main point I want to just raise here. We need to just exploit our indigenous resources. Our indigenous institutions. And build a democratic system. Even the Ethiopians had a democratic system before the Greeks. Before the Greeks. Before the Romans. But they relinquished that system. Because the world is the result of movement.
While you are moving, you may leave your indigenous system, your knowledge, your institution behind, and become autocrats and the like. So exploiting indigenous system is very important. Indigenous institutions.
I’m sorry just to say that our African brothers still are in mental colonialism. They can’t liberate themselves. They can’t think beyond that. Every elite group wants us to just become a dominant person. While you are giving in power. We have not yet changed our mentality. We have not yet started to work for our people.
[Me]
I think you’re exactly right. Very good points. I absolutely agree. I have seen a lot of people from different parts of the world who think, “If only I moved to the U.S, if only I moved to Europe, all my problems would be solved.” And I agree with you. It’s a form of a colonial mentality.
Maybe as another example, I was recently a couple months in Thailand, which is also a country that was never officially colonized, like Ethiopia. They still have this mentality that, “If only they can move there, then all their problems will be solved.”
It can produce a brain drain where highly skilled educated professionals pretty much all leave the community, they go to the West, and then suddenly you have less people in that community who are highly educated with the type of skill sets that can be important to resolve and build a good, effective society. Because a lot of the people with those skill sets and with that training leave. I absolutely agree with you.
Well, thank you for taking the time now. I think it’s very helpful to kind of break down what’s been going on in Ethiopia, especially coming out of Sudan. And I hope you have a good rest of your morning.
[Aaron]
Yeah, thank you so much for having me and for such conversations.
